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“Gays Go To Hell!”

2008/04/26IssuesTags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

If we believe what the traditional Catholic teachings say about people who engage in homosexual acts, then we can conclude that sexually active gays go to hell. (Aba, ang hell pala ay parang isang napakalaking Malate, or Puerto Galera during Holy Week! Hehehe!). Well, here’s a sharing by a young MGG reader about his reflections on sprituality and homosexuality. Read on and feel free to share your thoughts as well.

* * *

Hi Migs,

Before proceeding to the real purpose of this email, I would like to begin by introducing myself as Drew. I am a junior at the Ateneo de Manila University. Though I’ve probably known about my homosexuality since I could remember, I have only come to a deeper acceptance and understanding of it over the past 2 years. You see, I come from a religious and spiritual family which is probably why I gave, and am still giving, a great importance to dealing and coming into terms with my issues about being homosexual vis-a-vis my religion, more so, my relationship with God.

Introductions aside, I emailed you because it has come to my attention how the topic of the homosexual act being viewed as a sin is touched, discussed, and reacted to by many of your subscribers and our fellow gay brothers/ sisters.

I understand very well how indispensable and essential this theme is (which is why it recurs so much in your blog in one form or another) given the facts that 1) we come from a dominantly Catholic country and 2) spirituality and our ultimate desire to “go to heaven” plays an equally great and natural part in our humanity. I have noticed how a lot of our fellow homosexuals out there are still struggling about whether having sex with another man, regardless if they already did it or not, will ultimately lead them to damnation or hell. As a person who has painfully and exhaustingly struggled with and eventually obtained a stable and greater understanding of our sexuality and its relationship with God, I feel that it is my obligation to share my experience and knowledge about this aspect of our gay lives.

With that said, the following are the things I have come to realize with the help of prayer, reflection, conversations with friends and priests and – as disgusting as it may sound – research:


Ask for a blessing

1. Being at peace with one’s homosexuality and all the God-related issues that come with it, doesn’t come automatically. Coming into complete, peaceful, and doubtless terms with one’s homosexuality vis-a-vis what God thinks about it BEGINS and requires a blessing from Him – a blessing that is obtained through a lot of prayer and of course, pride and understanding of one’s self. This feeling of peace is so powerful that not even the harshest of insults and condemnation, regardless of whether it came from the Church or not, is enough to make it falter. This feeling is, to me, the only thing that actually matters. With this feeling, the desire to know how homosexuality isn’t a sin in a religious/ technical point of view becomes optional.


Catholic Tradition

2. The reason why the Church is against homosexuality is because of its tradition. To give you a short history about how homosexuality has come to be negatively viewed by the Church, I’d like to cite something about St. Augustine and St. Thomas Moore. You see, both of them were like the founding fathers of the beliefs and dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. Sadly, St. Augustine wasn’t a big fan of sex and more so of homosexuals which is why he wrote some articles condemning them. He said that sex is something that should only be done with the sole intention of making a baby. No more, no less. A few years later, these writings were baptized by St. Thomas Moore and eventually became the foundation of the beliefs of the RCH towards homosexuality. To make the long story short, this negative view towards homosexuality by the Church came from a bunch of homophobes and not really from Jesus or God.


Bible

3. About the verses in the Bible that directly and indirectly refer to the homosexual act as a sin (yes, including that famed Leviticus verse): It is all a matter of misinterpretation caused by the misuse of context and translation. This article, if it will be posted, is long enough as it is. I simply can’t go through each and every verse. If anyone becomes interested, I can just email him/ her the material from which I am basing my claims. My point is this: Not once was the term homosexual ever used in the original manuscript of the Bible simply because no such word ever existed during that time it was made. There was just this Greek term, malakoi if I am not mistaken, that directly means SOFT, which was interpreted by the Church to mean homosexual. About the verses that say something about a man lying with another man is a sin, the Bible was referring to it in the CONTEXT of TEMPLE PROSTITUTION and not really on the act itself.


Sex is Good

4. After a talk with Fr. Richard Michley, a gay priest and the founder of the Metropolitan Community Church (a gay community church), I have come to learn the all sex is good as long it is NOT forced on any or either of the participants, for the lack of a better term. He claims that, “God isn’t any more interested in our sex organs than He is with our ears or elbows.” The view of sex as being bad is based on old tradition as pointed out in number 2. Again, for those who wish to clarify things with him, I can give you his contact details.


Feel Good

5. Some of you might say, “These things are just what you make yourself believe in order to feel better.” Well, I am telling you now my friends that all these things I have said come from a greater basis than just their original sources. I am not talking about these as a preacher or as someone with great authority. Rather, these things I am saying, however vague and inexact, come with that peaceful feeling of coming into terms with God.

With all those said, I’d like to point out, again, that I had shared what I did in the hope to help others build a better understanding and knowledge of their sexuality vis-a-vis their spirituality/ religion. I believe that coming into terms with one’s sexuality is an important part of learning how to respect and love one’s self and ultimately, an important element should we want the rest of society to respect us.

We should all just remember that God loves us, we love Him, and that as long as we are doing what is right, then we shouldn’t have any problems.

Actually, the only point I wish to drive at is that God has no problems about us being gay. I just wanted to have the evidence and reasons for it.

That’s all. Mabuhay ang ’sangkabaklaan.

Kindest,
Drew

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  1. #56  Tim

    Hi, I would really like to contact someone who can help me at least clear up some of my confusions on this topic.

    Coming from a traditional religious background, and being gay, has caused a lot of confusion and inescurity on my part. And the lack of parental support or interest has really left me in doubt and anxiety.

    I really like the information provided though. It really really helps me a lot.

    Thank you

    09/06/12 17:48

  2. #55  alee

    to believe or not to believe in God. this has always been a constant dilemma within me. i think it’s because the church as an institution has been effectively and deliberately misinterpreting the true word of God. to my chagrin, my parents have recently converted into born again christians. although they have expressed in words their acceptance of my being gay, their actions tell a different story. oh well.

    anyway, i frequently hear a lot of people say that being gay is a choice. such remarks never fail to annoy me. if to be gay was a choice, eh di sana wala ng naging bading to make things a lot easier for them. to be gay will never be a choice. to be gay is to be gay, period. to be gay and adopt a child to raise is a choice. to be gay and still marry a woman and raise a family is a choice.

    i loved your blog drew. for a few moments, i somehow felt “found”. peace.

    08/06/03 21:33

  3. #54  Renz

    Drew, my friend, that is one good article, couldn’t have said it any better…

    If i may?

    Let us put it this way:

    God is Love and Love is God…

    How could God even think of hating any of His own Children?

    P.S.

    I’m not even gay.

    08/05/18 19:42

  4. #53  andrewmlim

    sa inferno, homosexuals inuulanan ng apoy while running naked. when my cousin was reading me dante, that’s like the first time i got scared of being gay. i must be like twelve or something and it really made me think. kasi bata pa lang ako i made a fabulous outing na of myself. so un… feeling ko kahit na matanda na ako naandun pa din yung fear. maybe it’s not rational to believe in that fate or anything but so long as this message of exclusion is constantly and consistently heard or read and with such venomous hatred, the path to hell seems so certain…

    08/05/16 01:00

  5. #52  Marco Jordan

    NO ONE really knows who goes to heaven or who goes to hell. In fact, the existence of either has not been proven. They are all part of Christian belief. And Christ himself asks his followers not to judge. So why don’t we all chill on this one.

    08/05/07 15:48

  6. #51  olalay!

    Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstances. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident:

    Dear Dr. Laura,

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him or her that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them.

    (a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
    pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    (b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    (c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

    (d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
    female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

    (e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on Sunday (the Sabbath). In the book of Exodus verse 35:2 it clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

    (f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
    abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than
    homosexuality. I don’t know. Can you settle this?

    (g) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
    defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

    (h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
    around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

    (i) I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    (j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16). Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14).

    I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging, and we should do what the bible says.

    Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

    http://www.gaychurch.org/Gay_and_Christian_YES/gay_and_christian_yes.htm

    08/05/02 03:45

  7. #50  Sanch

    Yeah right. I might as well be a priest then…oh no, I think that hypocritical, evil, stealing church won’t allow gays into the brotherhood (isn’t that one of the new rules of that church now?). What you are trying to say is all of us practicing gays should practice the art of celibacy? Hoy, for your information celibacy is a gift! If that were innate in every man you wouldn’t be having problems recruiting men into your organization. And by the way, talking about the act of the gift of life, I have been in a relationship with a man for almost 20 years now and my Love for this man has evolved to a level where, I know for a fact, a lot of straight couples will never ever achieve. I believe that sex with love is one of the purest forms of love whether it is done by straights or gays or whether it produces children or not. Just because I can not procreate makes my actions sinful? Whatever happened to Love? In a world so over populated now, people starving everywhere, no homes, it will burst in the seams and implode one day if nothing is done about it, you still preach the gift of life? I think that church should start recognizing birth control, make a new stance, but of course you will never allow that for the simple reason of that flimsy excuse called “gift of life”. We were all born differently some have it some don’t but we are not any more different in Gods eyes! Face the truth and get off your high horse, we’re here, we’re queer and that is a fact of life. No institution in this world can change that, not even God himself (believe me because I believed in that term “faith can move mountains” and prayed so many novenas, rosaries, went to church everyday and believed and had faith that God would make me straight one day. Well, guess what I’m still queer as ever and the only thing that runs in my mind right now is to continue accepting myself and believe that God put me here for a reason and I am not going to let a band of men in dresses destroy what I have finally accepted. If the church can not accept who I am, it most certainly isn’t my problem and the church has issues to deal with when it comes to this, so stop ramming down my throat what is well known to have been a book that was created by a group of men for their selfish and ruthless aggrandizement). If I will be damned to hell for this action then so be it (but I won’t go to hell because I prayed so hard to God one day to show me his approval of me and my actions and this one he gave his blessings, whether you take that as the demon who approved it is your problem not mine. I am at peace with him now). No wonder I turned my back on your institution.

    P.S. Why don’t you get Manoling to join the priesthood. Of course he will not be accepted, you and I know that for a fact.

    08/05/01 14:59

  8. #49  bon

    Gays don’t go to HELL…Their all around us. Making people happy and GAY! At the end of the day. We are all responsible for ourselves and to whoever ur GOD is. Unless ur still confused of your sexuality and still hidding in your closet.
    AMEN!

    08/05/01 04:14

  9. #48  Father_Bob

    I’m sorry but I find the facts stated in this article as crude and misleading, first of all, Saint Augustine and the other Fathers of the Church are not asexual or those who are distasteful of sex, Saint Augustine in fact had committed many acts of sexual intercourse with the opposite sex before his spiritual conversion through the sermons of St. Ambrose of Milan, never has the Church said that sexual intercourse per se is bad, it is sinful based on the intention of the person and homosexual intercourse falls under this category, the word homosexual never appeared on the bible, but so is abortion, terms are merely designation of acts, if the acts were committed before the term was coined it would still be considered a sin. I would like to quote a passage on the New Testament with a more clarified renunciation of sexual acts, which is Romans 1:26-27 “God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another…” Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, scripture and tradition have always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. Homosexuals are not condemned by the Church per se, it is the acts of homosexuality which the Church renounces, yet the Catholic Church requires people struggling with homosexuality to practice chastity, the Church does not totally condemn homosexuals to damnation, it acknowledges that homosexuality can be “a trial” and stresses that people with such tendencies must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity, however the homosexuals themselves must acknowledge that homosexual thoughts and actions are sinful and must strive to renounce them and devote themselves willingly to a life of chastity and piousness, a very good example of this would be Manoling Morato (Jake Cuenca’s Grand Uncle) one could be innately “gay” and yet live a chaste and pious life free from the sins of homosexual acts which sadly many gay men and women today condone and indulge in.

    08/04/30 20:35

  10. #47  Wal the Atheist

    To Tsinito,

    Ahh..the fire and brimstone scare tactics again. Does that still work? I thought only Colorado fundamentalists use them still. Never mind.

    Of course, you know, we wont have to fight about this if only your God did one teensy weensy little thing.

    What if your Hebrew God had the foresight to see all the suffering that the gay and lesbian community had to endure from the countless morons that worship him. And if he truly had compassion for them then why couldnt he…I mean…would it have been difficult for him to make an addendum to the Commandments? Shall we say…

    The 11th Commandment

    “I am the Queen, thy God, thou shalt not insult, mame or kill those of my kin or like me for I am a bitchy faggot. I know, I know! I did mention number 6…’Thou shalt not kill’ already but you f**king braindead idiots are so thick that you would just ignore that unless I specified it more clearly. Now get me Archangel Michael? Where the hell is he? He is supposed to give me a massage at 2:00. Make sure that he has the fleshlight!”

    Unfortunately, the problem is that God did not forget the 11th Commandment. No, no, no. Not on your willy! The real problem is that ‘God’, the one that we are told to believe in, is a true-blue, without a doubt, one hundred percent, Texas born and bred ….HETEROSEXUAL!!!!!! You may ask. Why on earth does the Ruler of the Universe have a sexual orientation for? I dont know. But there you go!

    And ever since, the 3 major religions that HE (not she) spawned had been in a constant war with those males that have no inkling for a pussy or those females that dont care about dick. The Jews hate them. The Christians persecute them. The Muslims just simply execute them!

    And yet, some of us gays still yearn for a strong straight male from the sky to come down and rescue us from all this. A heterosexual hero who will sweep us away into his castle in the clouds where we will make mad passionate fellatio on each other. Condoms not required. The ultimate straight-male fantasy, I guess. But this straight male will not allow us to get within a mile of his dick, let alone touch it!

    So, I wonder who the real braindead idiots are? The believers who persecute the victims? Or the victims who persecute themselves?

    08/04/30 19:05

  11. #46  multiply

    i have no problem with that since i’m not like many people who keep on believing because they want to save their lives after death. i don’t believe there’s god and that there’s heaven or hell.

    08/04/30 18:26

  12. #45  Brian

    There is actually a special ministry for gay Catholics to help them deal with such issue. The group is called Courage. Google it on the net. =)

    08/04/29 12:26

  13. #44  tsinitoboy

    To Wal the atheist: It’s been a while since I got into a debate but we should give due respect to migs, and move our joust elsewhere for our retaliations are already occupying a great part of the comments area and we’re on the verge of getting off-topic. If you like you can email me @ lucesinferni(at)gmail(dot)com

    As my final comment on this topic: To know if gays go to hell? When the time of your demise comes, then you’ll know if you’ll be glorious with the choirs of angels, burn day & night on lake of sulfur & fire or just cease to exist.

    08/04/29 04:29

  14. #43  markus

    Mmmm… just think of this: Anything that goes away from being “natural” as made by the Creator are against Him ergo are sins. Homosexuals are not evil but homosexual acts are.

    08/04/29 02:04

  15. #42  Ruben

    I once heard a priest say: God created all of us in a way that only He can do. Since God is perfect, He does not create junk. Because He is God, with him nothing is impossible. But he does not hold anyone of his creatures to do the impossible. All he wants us to do is to try to do the best we can in the manner that we can say honestly that we did the best we can. That we do not feel guilty about our results if we tried to do the best we can.

    If God created us with a homosexual orientation, and we are so inclined (or leaning) that way, to expect us to do the impossible – which is to lean the other way – is to expect us to do the impossible. Then THAT, for me, would be the greater sin!

    08/04/29 01:55

  16. #41  Mark

    Addition, gays can go to heaven… yup

    read this:
    http://esoriano.wordpress.com/2007/06/02/can-a-homosexual-make-it-to-heaven/

    08/04/28 20:34

  17. #40  my yellow shirt

    frankly, I’ve seen this in my own religion (yes I am not catholic, no dirty looks please). But I have lived with myself these 36 years (hahahah plug in nag bday lang ako!!!), and ever since I had the grace to come to terms with my God as someone who can see me for who I am and what I can be I was just thrilled that at least once, just once, somebody in church saw me as another person hungry for love (and I mean love), that even the love of God seemed forbidden just because of who I was.
    Well it turned out God is not fooled, he loves me. Even if I make it difficult for him to be loving as well.
    To the readers, I don’t want to tell you anything more than this, God loves so that there would be life. He doesn’t desire anything that would destroy it.
    Thanks Migs, I do love being close to God. And the people He gave for me to love and receive love.

    Hay kilig.

    Ok ok ok, sorry to the Ex’s. Hey I’m not perfect in love. Let’s be friends?

    08/04/28 17:18

  18. #39  allan

    A simple test. Can you thank God ask Him to bless you without feeling guilty before (or even after) an SEB? orgy? SOP? Sex with a man? rather going to Puerto Galera (and all its carnal offerings) than church on Holy Week? watching porno?

    08/04/28 17:12

  19. #38  Wal the Atheist

    To Tsinitoboy, No, it doesnt mean that if you dont believe in a “God” that you automatically become a gun-totting murdering pedophile! Millions of Buddhists do not believe in God and as far as I know, they carry on with their lives just like any other normal human beings. Belief in God is not a pre-requisite to live a moral and ethical life. As far as your argument for the Origin of everything, why does the origin have to be a God? Why can’t it be two Gods? Or three? Why believe that this one is the true God? And if we keep insisting on Origins then honesty dictates that we ask the same question about God. What is his Origin? And if we say that he/she has none then why cant we say that the Universe never had a begining. That it was always there in one form or another. These questions was addressed well in the book you supposedly read, The God Delusion by Dawkins. The real tragedy, I think, is that you didnt understand it. Your rant about science is hilarious. The next thing you are going to tell me is that the earth is only 5,000 years old. If so, then I leave you to it. We really have nothing to debate further. :)

    And for those who find comfort in believing in a sky fairy. That is all fine and dandy. Humans throughout history has always had the propensity to look for a hero who will look after them in times of uncertainty. This is a throwback from our ape ancestors with its alpha male societies. The point I’m making however is that the God you believe in or want to believe in, one that is compassionate and tolerant of our lifestyle, cannot be one that was extracted from the Hebrew Biblical tradition. Because, quite simply, they are incompatible. This is not the God you want. It is better that you invent one for yourself or throw the God meme out altogether and embrace a no-belief system that still keeps it’s humanity. I understand that some or most are not ready for that. This is the problem with living in a culture where even as a child we are already coaxed to have the religion of our parents instead of being encouraged to think for ourselves. What I was suggesting was an alternative to this way of thinking.

    08/04/28 16:52

  20. #37  Isaribi

    REPOST

    Saw this post earlier and I think it has relevance to the theme.

    Pravilno Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 6:31 pm

    Is God against gays?

    In order to answer this (from my own point of view) we should first realize who is God. Most Filipino catholic parents introduce God to their children as a vengeful and scary god. I often see parents saying to their children, “Hala ka, Wag kang bad, Magagalit si Lord! Parurusahan ka ni God.” I strongly believe that this is wrong. Why should we introduce God to our children as a vengeful and scary god? Because of this, it influences our way of thinking and knowing of God (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.)

    God is Love. God is the “Supreme Bonum” meaning God is all good. Now from this point of view, we can have a clear idea if God really is against gays… How can someone who is all good know hate? How can someone who is love vengeful or scary?

    We are who we are because thats the way God created us (God created everything remember? So it means that we are part of His grand design. It means that God isn’t against gays or sinners because this is how we are designed and created.) You choose to be the way you are because God gave us one of the greatest gifts the gift of reason and the gift of thinking for our own self. No one has access to this great gift except your own self (Take note: Even God can’t manipulate your way of thinking). So now tell me, Is God against gays?

    Additional words to ponder: “Why is there such words like ‘repentance’ and ‘forgiveness’?” God love gays and sinners! Because only them knows what does repentance, pardon and forgiveness mean. Have you ever wonder why the Catholic Church has been instituted bu Jesus Christ himself? The Church wasn’t for saints, it is for the sinners.

    08/04/28 13:23

  21. #36  george

    John 3:16 For God so love the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.”

    So there, before we all get carried away, let us go back to the basics: that salvation is through God and a gift from God — but it is a gift because we need to accept it first. If you profess in your heart that you are a sinner and ACCEPT the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior, then by faith will be see our Father in heaven. ANYONE can be saved, but we must first accept Him as our Savior.

    Remember, we are all created by God, but only those who accept Him as their Saviour are His children. There is also a whole world of difference between knowing that Jesus Christ is our Savior and accepting Him as your personal Savior. This has got nothing to do with being Catholic, Mormon, Iglesia ni Kristo. These are all religions which tell you that by being a member of their specific churches, you can go to heaven.

    My point is: etong hell, hell, hell issue skirts the real issue: whoever you are, you can have eternal salvation with Christ by accepting Him as your Savior. Of course, our Christian responsibility does not end there…we need to go by Biblical principles in our daily lives…

    Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; NOT OF WORKS, so no man should boast”.

    08/04/28 08:59

  22. #35  la sallista

    When we die, all of us will go to heaven, because where we live right now is already hell.

    Hehehehe. Just a food for thought.

    08/04/28 08:06

  23. #34  hustlingmind

    omg! you r all an expert pagdating sa religion and its view towards gayness. just when i thought dad ko lang kelangan ko iplease. hehehe. kumplikado pa pala.

    08/04/27 21:51

  24. #33  Drew

    To Pronghorn:

    I hope you’d understand it if I’d rather not email you. I believe that we can settle matters here.

    Yes, I do believe that you misunderstood me when I said, “Mabuhay ang ’sangkabaklaan.” Having said that, I only meant to express a sense of pride towards homosexuality and not so much as to force the label onto people who aren’t comfortable with it. I’m sorry if I offended you. But as they say, live and let live.

    08/04/27 21:29

  25. #32  Anino

    Uy sikat pala si Aquianas. Ang punto niya, ang tao ay driven ng sexual urges.To the point na the Catholic Church must govern us dahil hindi natin kayan kontrolin ang ating sarili.

    Bahala kayo kung maniniwala kayo sa isang lalakeng minsang sinabi na ang kababaihan ay depektong produkto.

    08/04/27 19:51

  26. #31  tsinitoboy

    I myself am gay (obviously why I always frequent this site!) and a practicing member of the Holy Roman Catholic Apostolic Church. I admit that I also had my share of lustful encounters with men and it is part of being human to stumble in order to grow and learn. Simply being gay does not mean you are sinner. You are a sinner if you do not believe in the salvation of Christ and follow His teachings (and that is for everybody whether straight or gay). I had once encountered a book entitled “The God Delusion” that purports that “If this book works as I intend, religious readers who open it will be atheists when they put it down”. Well I guess the author is wrong with my case. I still am not shaken by his conviction I rather find him amusing for taking the toil to browse the Bible to find passages that seemingly support vindications. If he had just wholeheartedly read the whole Bible and reflect upon the wisdom in it he could have been a better God-loving man. Another point in his writing, is his focus on the errs of man. To err is human is an old cliché and everybody is subject to it, even the clergy (even him of course!). That’s why we have the sacrament of penance so that we can still strive to live in the way of the Lord after our downfall. Science for him is the truth but the problem with science is that it is not absolute and therefore subject to change. Even for just for a span of a few decades, many widely accepted theories had become obsolete, (dinosaurs actually had feathers, the control setup in an experiment did not yield the desired result and list goes on). Unlike the Bible which had survived the ravage of thousands of years virtually unchanged. For science is just a contemporary learning and is just a grain of sand in an open beach when compared to the vast wisdom of God. Pardon if I went on with my rant and risked being slightly off-topic. Back to “Gays go to Hell”, you will not if you had faith in Him and will never if you follow His path.

    08/04/27 19:43

  27. #30  neo

    I agree…except that it was not ST. Thomas Moore but ST. Thomas AQUINAS. :)

    08/04/27 19:23

  28. #29  liner

    ang tatalino ng mga nag-comment. basta ang alam ko God want’s me to be happy and gay.

    08/04/27 18:44

  29. #28  Drew

    To Pronghorn:

    I hope you’d understand if I don’t find the need to email you. I believe that we can just settle matters here.

    I do think that you misunderstood me when I said, “Mabuhay ang ’sangkabaklaan.” I really didn’t mean to offend anyone with that. I was merely expressing a sense of pride for homosexuality and not so much as to force the label to anyone who isn’t comfortable with it. Like they say, live and let live. Sorry for disappointing you.

    ———

    To: Hermeneutics and Tsinitoboy:

    I very much respect your views and opinions. Believe me, I have actually tried adopting such principles in the past years. Sadly, it just lead to more pain and conufusion. I believe that homosexuality isn’t a cause to which we must play as martyrs. And it is even my greater belief that God created everyone to be happy – to enjoy and take part in His grace and undying love.

    Don’t get me wrong, I really do get what you guys are saying. It’s just that what I’m trying to point out is as long as one feels that peace, that sense of RIGHT about being gay, then everything is and will be all right because I don’t think God would allow us to feel good about something that offends Him in the first place.

    If in being martyrs is where you feel RIGHT, then bless you. Perhaps, it just varies from gay person to gay person.

    08/04/27 17:13

  30. #27  tsinitoboy

    To lonelygayboy: yes homosexuality also appears in other species of animals but imagine if a great portion of their population resorted to homosexual activities would you think they won’t face extinction? Male to female copulation is the natural way to reproduce for higher forms of vertebrates for millions of years, unless you’re parthenogenetic that is.

    To Wal the atheist:”Thankfully though, once you remove this belief in ‘God’ from the equation then everything changes. There will only be Truth. Consequently, there will be nothing sinful about being gay. No Hell to be afraid of. None of the self-guilt and the tears of sorrow that we hide from others. You can be just as you are the way nature intended you to be. You can rest. And you can finally Eat and have your Fill!”

    If you remove God in the equation everything will not exist in the first place. But to see your side let us assume that you are correct and all people had become atheist, how would you imagine a world where people have no inhibitions. Would it not be a scary place to live in if people can do anything they want? They can kill you without any remorse for there is no hell to be afraid of. Morality shall be subject to questioning for its very foundation no longer exists. Life will lose its essence for in death you just die, no more no less. So would you still like to live in a world without God?

    08/04/27 17:00

  31. #26  lester

    well said. it couldn’t have been said any better. sana naman matapos na ang issue na ang bakla ay pupunta sa hell!!! enough of this stupid theories and religious traditions. I’m fed up with it. If gays are in hell, then count me in. I’m sure mas masaya dun.

    08/04/27 12:31

  32. #25  Ryan Speech

    Guys, if I may say so, let us not focus ourselves to other people on how they live their life because we will just stumble. But based on what the Bible says,

    Revelations 21:8

    But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10

    Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God

    ** You know what, people and even some religion classify homosexuality as one of the worst sins ever. Yet, the Bible is very clear. It doesn’t accentuate the homosexual act as the worst, yet it is just the same as being an idolater, murderer, and to your surprise, LIAR. Even lying will lead you to eternal hell. I know it sounds too much, yet the Bible in which we base our faith translates the truth. God sees sin as sin and does not categorize as to which is the worst amongst the rest.

    God is so good that he let his son Jesus die on the cross to pay for ALL our sins. That’s the good news brothers and sister. I don’t want to be preachy, but I am just sharing what I have learned from our church. I am still a homosexual individual, yet on the process of change. It is hard to understand for some of you, but I just want you to know that there is a ministry lead by the Lord, catering homosexual individuals in studying God’s word and be empowered with the truth. I am encouraging you to become part of this wonderful ministry. Kindly email me if you wish to know more concerning our support group. Email me at ryan.speech@yahoo.com. Thanks a bunch and God bless you all. :)

    08/04/27 11:28

  33. #24  Pronghorn

    Drew: You wrote quite well over there. But you ruined it a bit with “Mabuhay ang ’sangkabaklaan.”

    Not all of us who engage in same-sex eroticism are so willing to be called bakla. I, for one, am not a hermaphrodite.

    I hope you get me. Email me if you feel I misunderstood you.

    08/04/27 08:42

  34. #23  Wal the Atheist

    What??? hermeneutics says that “Homosexuality therefore is an opportunity for grace”!! So

    let me get this straight(pardon the pun), gays ought to be glad because they exist for the

    very purpose of becoming martyrs for Christ? What a load of donkey crap! Only a person with

    very low self-esteem would even begin to consider believing this. This is typical of the

    sadist nature of the RC (Roman Catholic) church. Give the hungry believing morons tiny

    scraps of food to keep them in line. They want you to Look, but dont touch! Touch, but dont

    taste! Taste, but dont eat! Eat, but dont swallow! Swallow, but dont have your fill!

    That is the problem with an anthropo-centric view of the universe. The God of such views

    would necessarily also be an “anthropos” (man). If that doesnt give you shivers down your

    spine already then you need to look at the God of the Hebrew tradition and particularly what

    he has done in the Old Testament. Yup, there it is! That God truly behaves like a man.

    Complete with the anger, the love and the mood swings. Too bad that Prozac wasnt around back

    then. A truly terrifying God with a gigantic ego. No wonder the Jews feared him. Let’s face

    it. If you were sitting in a restaurant with that guy around, you’ll leave!

    But this is the God that some of us gays believe in when they think about God and the bible.

    There cant be anyone else. If they prefer the God that Jesus mentioned. Well…this is the

    same guy! Anyone else and they are just inventing a new God for themselves to believe in!

    What is the point? Why should gays stick with a belief structure that condemns gays

    themselves? Self-defeating. But more to the point, utterly utterly stupid.

    Thankfully though, once you remove this belief in ‘God’ from the equation then everything

    changes. There will only be Truth. Consequently, there will be nothing sinful about being

    gay. No Hell to be afraid of. None of the self-guilt and the tears of sorrow that we hide

    from others. You can be just as you are the way nature intended you to be. You can rest. And

    you can finally Eat and have your Fill!

    08/04/27 07:43

  35. #22  lonelygayboy

    to tsinito boy, whoever said homosexual act was an aberration of “natural design” of the human body? God? first prove to me that God had indeed said it. second prove to me why the “natural design” is for a man and woman to copulate. because if we were to go by how something is natural, there are a lot of examples in nature that do not follow the “natural design”. much like other animals practicing homosexuality, much like vestigial organs and limbs, much like abnormalities.

    so this concept of “natural design” is nothing more than a socially constructed meaning enforced by the patriarchal traditions and biases of christianity. if you place christianity into a different context or culture, you would see that its teaching would crumble and not stand up because the circumstances are different. the people have different values and mindset. that is why you will be hard pressed to prove that man to man copulation is against the “natural design”.

    08/04/27 06:31

  36. #21  tsinitoboy

    To hermeneutics: very well said.

    08/04/27 03:40

  37. #20  Kalinicos

    disturbances writes: “This does not mean that homosexual persons are not often generous and giving of themselves; but when they engage in homosexual activity they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent.”
    my comment:
    Sexual activity whether homosexual or heterosexual is almost always in part self-indulgent anyway. I’ve done it with both genders, and both sexual acts are pleasurable in their own ways. So, is one more sinful than the other just because the possibility of procreation is eliminated from the outset in the former? If the supposed rationale of God (and I would never want to presume to speak for God) is that sexual union is primarily to “transmit life” then either (1) a whole lot of heterosexuals will join homosexuals in hell because I’m certain that their sex lives are not governed purely by the reproductive imperative or (2) the world will be grossly overpopulated. But, like I mentioned in my previous post, I think it is useless to debate these questions because chances are God doesn’t really care what we do.

    08/04/27 03:26

  38. #19  Kalinicos

    God does not give a rat’s ass who we have sexual relations with. Are we not being a bit too egotistical to think that God bothers with our private affairs, which is completely meaningless and insignificant, a minute speck relative to his unfathomable omnipotence. He has more important things to worry about. It seems to me that all these religious prohibitions are things that a couple of people a long time ago made up and claimed to be direct orders from God so that they could oppress others, and add rhetorical force to the kind of ethics that they promote.

    08/04/27 03:04

  39. #18  hermeneutics

    Catholic tradition teaches that homosexual acts (not orientation) are objectively disordered because of its anthropological understanding of man. According to this anthropological understanding, man is created in the image of God but because of sin has fallen from His grace. Yet, God from the very moment of man’s creation has already known that man will reject Him, hence, Christ, the incarnate Son of God, who is ordained to save mankind exists in time and in the creator God. The history of man therefore is fraught with a rebelliousness from his very creation, against his very creator. A primal desire to become himself the creator, to transcend his being a creature has in the beginning then animated man’s nature.

    I begin with this premise, because the recognition of universal sinfulness but at the same time, of universal salvation must inform any and all analysis of man’s nature.

    Because man was created in God’s image, he SHARES (therefore, is not the source of) in the LOVE of the Father. This means, that MAN can never love on his own account. It is in his creature-hood as a created being that allows him to love.

    As such, genuine human love is the one that fully participates and cooperates in the love of God.

    Now, what are the characteristics of this love? I think that the most pertinent regarding homosexuality (or any kind of sexuality at that) are the CREATIVE nature of God’s love – it’s openness to life and its – and the COMMITTED nature of the same love. Hence, unless human love moves towards the direction of CREATION and COMMITMENT it cannot be authentic sharing in the love of God.

    In the Old Testament, God has manifested his creative love through his promise to Noah and his committed love through the history of the Israeli people. In the New Testament, this love becomes FULLY realized with the crucified (and risen) Christ. Christ’s resurrection completes the history of Creation by restoring created reality into God. The establishment of the apostolic, Catholic Church through Peter, on the other hand, completed the fidelity and the commitment of God, witnessed to by the disciples.

    Christ’s marriage to the Church, therefore, is the most sublime form of love through which we can share in.

    What do these all imply? One, that our response and sharing in God’s love can only be fully realized if we share in the love of the resurrected Christ. Two, that this love of ours can only be truly and genuinely realized within the sacramental establishments of the Catholic Church – the bride of Christ.

    As such, homosexual acts – because they 1)foreclose the possibility of pro-creation; and 2)violate the sacramental commitment which only marriage can give – are objectively disordered.

    Any kind of human relationship, then, heterosexual types included, that do not move towards this direction are also objectively disordered.

    This is why the Church teaches that homosexual orientation is just the same as heterosexual orientation – with the same challenges and the same dilemmas – only that unlike heterosexual orientation it cannot be directed towards the creative and committed faculty of divine love.

    Both homosexual and heterosexual acts therefore that are outside the sacramental union of marriage violate and represent a rebellion against man’s sharing in the love of the Father.

    The challenge, however, for homosexuals is more difficult. Because, where heterosexuals are invited to the sacramental union of marriage, homosexuals are not. Why shouldn’t therefore in the interest of equality the Church allow homosexuals to marry so their commitment can be sacramental? This I think misses the pro-creative function of Christian and human love. Hence, the Church deems it to exercise, in more understanding ways, the pastoral care of homosexuals.

    Homosexuality therefore is an opportunity for grace. It is an opportunity to fully offer one’s body in martyrdom for Christ. In this modern times, where our political and social vocabularies are so inextricable from contemporary ideologies, where materialism reigns supreme, the martyrdom of homosexuals to their very own bodies can be a sublime reality that challenges, rather than reifies and affirms the existing social order of modernity (which is something that clamoring for allowing homosexuals to marry does).

    08/04/27 01:50

  40. #17  mouthworxz

    —-> well kung sa hell man bagsak ko eh!!! party every night kc halos lahat dun eh friends ko, hell pa kaya yun? hehehehehe

    08/04/27 01:44

  41. #16  SantaMonica

    isa lang tandaan natin, God Loves Us, anu pa man tayo. :D

    peace out,

    08/04/27 00:07

  42. #15  gay blogger in the closet

    it’s also important to remember that there is a difference between a person’s relationship with god and a person’s relationship with the church. one does not necessarily affect the other–unless you let it.

    and that’s why i’ve basically given up on the church as an institution, but not on god and the people of god. very important distinction.

    08/04/26 22:42

  43. #14  disturbances

    to further stress his (tsinitoboy’s) point:

    This does not mean that homosexual persons are not often generous and giving of themselves; but when they engage in homosexual activity they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent.”

    08/04/26 20:28

  44. #13  disturbances

    i like the point stressed by chinitoboy. i have been into this dilemma many years ago, done a thorough research, and the end result is still the same. and it is clearly stated in tsinitoboy’s comment:

    “To chose someone of the same sex for one’s sexual activity is to annul the rich symbolism and meaning, not to mention the goals, of the Creator’s sexual design. Homosexual activity is not a complementary union, able to transmit life; and so it thwarts the call to a life of that form of self-giving which the Gospel says is the essence of Christian living.

    08/04/26 20:27

  45. #12  Sanch

    I am no longer a practicing catholic and i do not give a tiny rats ass about those men in mumus. They themselves have destroyed the true essence of what and who The Almighty is so they do not deserve my respect. I have made my peace with God and I know for a fact He loves me to bits and I love Him unconditionally. The catholic church can damn me to hell all they want but that still will not change who I am. I myself can not even change me, I was born this way and that’s how it is. They say that we gays were a trick nature played on, that our sexual proclivities go against nature. But if we were born this way doesn’t that make us part of nature’s creation and that our sexual preferences are in fact, normal? To say nature played a trick on us is just like saying the albino child was a trick nature played on or a child born with Downs Syndrome except of course these kinds of people are more readily accepted by society and in fact have more rights then we do. Oh by the way, “….but when they engage in homosexual activity they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent….” Disordered? They might as well should have just said deranged, lawless act. Who are these people representing, God or the demon? These people have deluded themselves into their own way of thinking and are forcing it down their followers throats. Enough said, sorry for the rant.

    08/04/26 19:23

  46. #11  pao

    sexuality should never be an issue. those people who descriminate gays should be the ones going to hell.

    damn it. its not our choice to be a homosexual. it’s God’s choice, and perhaps, He has a reason for it.

    i guess, some just hate gay community because they just pretend that they are pro-Christians. What the hell! do you think guys you could enter heaven if you are anti-gays? you better think so.

    anyway, i’m not a proud gay nor a shameful one. i just wanna say that being gay doesn’t mean damnation.

    THANK YOU AND MABUHAY TAYONG LAHAT!

    08/04/26 19:00

  47. #10  Drew

    To Ruben: Thank you for correcting me. I was indeed referring to St. Thomas Aquinas. Sorry for the mistake.

    To Tsinitoboy: You said, “Can’t platonic love be a better option for us?”

    That is well and good IF you can make it happen. But personally, I think it’s extremely difficult for anyone to do without the physical aspect of having a relationship. I’m just saying that the homosexual act will not damn us to hell.

    —
    Here’s one more thing I’d like to add:

    St. Paul did teach that Jesus set Christians free from the “Old Law.” It is a recurring theme in St. Paul’s writings. In Galatians, for example, St. Paul dwells on this subject at some length. He says if Christians live up to Jesus’ Law of Love, they are to separate themselves from all the other laws — and those people who would impose them. For example, that’s in Galatians 3:23-25 and Galatians 4:30-31.

    Paul insists the Levitical laws, meaning the ones found in Leviticus, have jurisdiction only within the Jewish religion, Judaism. He says that in Christ Jesus the “Law” was put to an end, and Christians are set free.

    Source: Father Richard Mickley

    08/04/26 18:41

  48. #9  Wilberchie

    I have read about that in the internet I just forgot the site. That the term homosexual was non-existent when the Bible was written. It was simply, a mistranslation by homophobes in the Catholic Church. It was written by a priest of the Order of the patron Saint of Friendship.

    I’m a Catholic myself, but I am loud and proud of what I am. Because my Sexual orientation doesn’t hinder me to give my best in all my endeavors in school.

    08/04/26 16:56

  49. #8  tsinitoboy

    “To chose someone of the same sex for one’s sexual activity is to annul the rich symbolism and meaning, not to mention the goals, of the Creator’s sexual design. Homosexual activity is not a complementary union, able to transmit life; and so it thwarts the call to a life of that form of self-giving which the Gospel says is the essence of Christian living. This does not mean that homosexual persons are not often generous and giving of themselves; but when they engage in homosexual activity they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent.” taken from “LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
    ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS”
    http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

    In light of this, can’t platonic love be a better option for us? Enjoying the love of your life yet not risking eternal damnation.

    08/04/26 16:46

  50. #7  tsinitoboy

    “And if a man has sex relations with a man, the two of them have done a disgusting thing: let them be put to death; their blood will be on them.” Leviticus 20:13

    This is the verse from the Old Testament that put the gravity into the issue. Since it came from the Old Testament it should no longer be the case for it was written:

    “Neither do men pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.” Matthew 9:17

    Which has an allusion that the Old Jewish teachings are no longer steadfast with the New Covenant for the old world is extremely different from the contemporary one. Listed in the book of Leviticus is a collection of don’t eat, don’t touch and don’t do’s wherein if they are to be implemented today a great portion of the christian populace will starve to death and face extinction (The Jewish population are still following the commandments from the Leviticus that is why their population is only 13.3 million in comparison to christians which are 2.14 billion) . As with the ancient situation, the population then was just a fraction of today’s, and that old teaching was meant for the preservation and expansion of their race. The “seed” (semen/sperm/tamod) then was a priceless commodity and to waste it on non-reproductive means (i.e. masturbation & anal sex) will lead to major consequences. As for the current situation, with regards to the massive population explosion, the human race had become less and less humane. And so, the Messiah was sent to teach man to love God with the wholeness of their being and to love his neighbor as he loves himself. And homosexual love is also a form of that great love. As with all people regardless of orientation, love is often expressed through sex. Sex is the procreative method to convey one’s innermost emotion to the person loved with pleasure added as a bonus. But sex not done in the context of love (just for the sheer pleasure it gives) is the abomination whether it is straight or gay sex.

    Being a man in love with a person of the same gender should not be seen such prejudice. For love is abstract and unpredictable. What joy it is to behold if love will rule the hearts of all men. Sad to say but many so called “Christians” now are the ones abhorrent of homosexuality and are very self-righteous. They explicitly profess their hatred towards gay people. Many sites in the web are dedicated just for that cause and one can feel the vindictive revulsion emanating from them. The question then is, do they really live up to their values or they’re just a bunch of hypocrites pretending to be with Christ?

    08/04/26 16:08

  51. #6  noel

    exactly.
    i love this blog.
    thnx.

    08/04/26 15:16

  52. #5  mickey

    I agree with the positive sentiment of the writer.

    It has always been my belief that the love of God transcends human interpretation of it (e.g. Bible).

    It is sad that the modern Catholic faith is allowing fear (hell, punishment, condemnation) to drown its glorious tenets of acceptance and diversity.

    08/04/26 14:53

  53. #4  Ruben

    Maganda ang insights mo. Very mature and very enlightening. I wish we all have that kind of outlook in our own spirituality and search for God.

    One small correction. You probably meant St. Thomas Aquinas instead of St. Thomas Moore.

    Mabuhay ka, kafatid.

    08/04/26 14:36

  54. #3  Fatboyslim

    Tama ka migs! If thats the case, I would love to go to hell. Kc nandun sila Piolo Sam, Enchong at marami pang iba! Hahahahaha!

    08/04/26 14:28

  55. #2  popolocrois

    the God I know loves me/us so much that He gave His only Son up.

    and the God I know loves me.

    That’s all I need to know.

    08/04/26 13:58

  56. #1  rommel

    Exactly how I feel. I love God with all my heart and I believe he loves me even if Im gay. God created me this way, its not my choice, and I know God never makes mistakes.

    08/04/26 13:32

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